Do the Japanese really love nature more than all other people ?

[Glenn]

The last sentence was highly sarcastic.

You mean the "what's your problem with this?" Yeah, I should have worded that differently.

Btw, it's been a several hundreds years since we have classified whales as mammals and not fish.

Well, a pineapple isn't an apple, and I don't know what grapefruits have to do with grapes, and eggplants certainly aren't grown by planting eggs, nor do they sprout them, yet we use these words all the time.

So Japanese language does not have a term just for "fish". Wonderful !

No, I said 魚 as a radical has a broader meaning. It also means "fish," though (see English "turtle" above). As a character in its own right it means anything belonging to 魚類, which includes jawless fish, bony fish, and cartilaginoid fish.

Even better ! Now Japanese language lacks terms for "mouse" (or "rat" ?) and for "whale".

No, they have them. I think it's highly possible that they use the broad terms for specific creatures, most likely the most common ones, and that they have acquired that meaning over time, but the scientific usage is different. There are words like that in every language.

Perhaps it would be better to say that there should also be the gloss "rodentia" there (or something like that) to give the impression that it's a scientific classification and not just rats and mice. As was written above, ハツカネズミ is "mouse" and ドブネズミ is "rat." As for whales, like I said, I didn't look into that one very deeply, but I see a pattern emerging.

Are you saying that a Japanese weasel is exactly the same animal as a Japanese mink ?

Well, from what I'm looking at now, it appears that way. However, under wikipedia's "mink" heading they don't list Japan at all, so it could be that the people who put イタチ into English had different ideas of what they should call it.

Giraffes, rhinoceros, elephants, lions and tigers aren't native to Japan or Europe, and yet Japanese and European languages have unique words for them. Why not smaller mamals ? I see a lack of interest in distinguishing animal species, and thus a lack of interest in nature. It only takes one person to create new words for the above. This person hasn't been born in Japan yet (or my 2 electronic dictionaries and Wikipedia in Japanese need a serious revision).

In the case of giraffes it's because they had a strange mythological creature called きりん, and when they saw a giraffe they thought it was strange, so they gave it that name (simplified version).

The others I don't know about off-hand, and I don't have time to look them up right now.

[Maciamo]

Well, a pineapple isn't an apple, and I don't know what grapefruits have to do with grapes, and eggplants certainly aren't grown by planting eggs, nor do they sprout them, yet we use these words all the time.

Indeed, but eggplant is only American English (the proper British English word is aubergine). As for grapefruits, it is because they grow in clusters/bunches like grapes (such "bunches" are called "grappe" in French). But I never understood why English has chosen "grapefruit" rather than "pomelo", "pompelmo", "pamplemousse", "pompelmoes", "Pampelmuse" or something like that, like in other Western European languages. "Pamplemouse" would have been an easy English adaptation.

No, I said 魚 as a radical has a broader meaning. It also means "fish," though (see English "turtle" above).

So there is only one word for "fish" and for "species that live in the water". It still show a lack of scientific rigour.

Perhaps it would be better to say that there should also be the gloss "rodentia" there (or something like that) to give the impression that it's a scientific classification and not just rats and mice. As was written above, ハツカネズミ is "mouse" and ドブネズミ is "rat." As for whales, like I said, I didn't look into that one very deeply, but I see a pattern emerging.

The grey, big rats regarded as varmint are called ドブネズミ while the white ones used for tests/experiments are called ラット

Thanks for the update. I always thought, and according to my pocket Random House dictionary, they were 大鼠（おおねずみ）.

Isn't it incredible that one of the world's most common mammals, the rat, does not have a clear name in Japanese ? In some dictionary it is ドブネズミ ("gutter mouse/rodent"), in others it is just ネズミ ("mouse/rodent"), in others ラット (from English) and in others yet 大鼠 ("big mouse/rodent") ! None of them are unique words, only adjective + noun compounds, except if "nezumi" alone means "rat", in which case it cannot mean "mouse" or "rodent" without having a double usage again.

[undrentide]

These parks may be packed, but it would be because the Japanese go to the same places justly because there are so few big national parks.

Is it really so?
I learnt from the internet source that the number of national parks in Japan is 28, total 2,051,179ha.
It is 5.43% of the total land (37,768,366ha). But I don't know about other countries. I'm very much interested, and searched further on the net and found interesting data.

http://earthtrends.wri.org
Biodiversity and Protected Areas > Data Tables


Note:
(1)-(3) Number of area (Total size in 1,000ha)
(4)(5) Number
*It seems that National Parks in Japan are not categorized as (1) by UNEP-WCMC.
I think that there are various way to measure the status of nature in each country and the above data is not everything.
There are many different ways to appreciate nature.
But at least the above data is some indication, and Japan is not so bad.
There are 7 national parks which are over 100,000ha - it is less than UK or Germany but not so astonishingly few either.



Note:
Number of Total Know Species, 2004 (Number of threatened species, 2003)

*It's sad to see that the number of threatened species increaseced rapidly, especially birds in Japan.
Biodiversity and Protected Areas > Country Profile shows more details, though the data is older than the above.

Biodiversity in Japan is far better than I expected from a post in this forum in the past which states as if there were far less botanical diversity in Japan than other European countries.

[Glenn]

Indeed, but eggplant is only American English (the proper British English word is aubergine). As for grapefruits, it is because they grow in clusters/bunches like grapes (such "bunches" are called "grappe" in French). But I never understood why English has chosen "grapefruit" rather than "pomelo", "pompelmo", "pamplemousse", "pompelmoes", "Pampelmuse" or something like that, like in other Western European languages. "Pamplemouse" would have been an easy English adaptation.

Isn't "aubergine" French? Thanks for the info on grapefruits -- at least it makes some sense now. But then again, why aren't bananas called grapenanas or something? They grow in bunches too.

I wonder what they call eggplant in Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

So there is only one word for "fish" and for "species that live in the water". It still show a lack of scientific rigour.

I think there is only one word for "fish" (well, I guess three if you count いお and うお as separate readings for 魚), which includes eels, sharks, and all the other things that are usually associated with the English word. The component 魚 can also mean an animal that lives in the water. It isn't a word, but a part of other characters. For instance 鮑 is an abalone and 鯱 is a killer whale.

I don't think there is much scientific rigour in common names for the animals and plants in English, either, which is probably why the scientific names are given in Latin.

Isn't it incredible that one of the world's most common mammals, the rat, does not have a clear name in Japanese ? In some dictionary it is ドブネズミ ("gutter mouse/rodent"), in others it is just ネズミ ("mouse/rodent"), in others ラット (from English) and in others yet 大鼠 ("big mouse/rodent") ! None of them are unique words, only adjective + noun compounds, except if "nezumi" alone means "rat", in which case it cannot mean "mouse" or "rodent" without having a double usage again.

Well, like undrentide said, ラット is specifically a lab rat. I'm curious about 大鼠, though, as it doesn't show up in 大辞林, 明鏡国語辞典, the EXCEED dictionary, or 英辞郎. It's in Random House, though, and I'm pretty sure I heard it in Kill Bill.

I don't see why 鼠 couldn't have one usage as a word and another as a part of a word, especially if it were an abbreviation (like "homo" or "tele"), but, at any rate, that doesn't seem to be the case.

Here's the definition of 鼠 in 明鏡国語辞典: 一般に小形で、尾が細長いネズミ目ネズミ科の哺乳類。 上下一対の門歯が発達し、終生伸び続ける。農作物や食 料品を食い荒らすほか、病原体を媒介することも� る。 「ねずみ算」の語が� るほど繁殖力は� 盛。「ドブネズ ミ・クマネズミ・ハツカネズミ・アカネズミ・ハタネズ ミなど、その種類はきわめて多い。So, maybe "rat/mouse" is more appropriate, and "rodentia" is too broad (or perhaps "Murinae" would be most appropriate, but who uses that in everyday speech?). But just the English word "rat" isn't all that accurate, it seems.

I guess it's worth noting here that glosses are in most cases apporximations of words, so most likely one-to-one correspondences are rare. Lately I'm finding that using J-E/E-J dictionaries cause lots of misunderstanding in word usage, and even checking a Japanese dictionary can leave you at a loss as to how a word is actually used sometimes.

[leonmarino]

Belgians call "water-rat" (which is a delicacy according to my dear southern neighbours) "water-konijn", which translates to "water-rabbit".. Now how stupi.. I mean, how logical is that?

[Maciamo]

Belgians call "water-rat" (which is a delicacy according to my dear southern neighbours) "water-konijn", which translates to "water-rabbit".. Now how stupi.. I mean, how logical is that?

Never heard of that. Who told you that ? Any link ? Anyway I suppose you are referring to a dish, not the actual scientific name of an animal. As you know there are 3 official languages in Belgium, so I suppose again that it is in Dutch (your language) that you heard that. My influence is only limited to the ministers of the French community, so I do no take responsibility for that.

[leonmarino]

Never heard of that. Who told you that ? Any link ? Anyway I suppose you are referring to a dish, not the actual scientific name of an animal. As you know there are 3 official languages in Belgium, so I suppose again that it is in Dutch (your language) that you heard that. My influence is only limited to the ministers of the French community, so I do no take responsibility for that.

I don't have a link I'm sorry but I used to go to Belgiu.. Flanders a lot, so that's how I know. A Belgia.. Flemish friend of mine and I were actually talking "waterkonijn" a while ago.

[caster51]

about Japanese four seasons, It is neither only the weather, trees nor a temperature etc.
I think I think the traditional thing of the season can be included.