Alright, I am waiting for the list (let's start at 2 million items then). Don't forget that this is about "traditional" Japanese culture, so before Meiji.Originally Posted by pipokun
Alright, I am waiting for the list (let's start at 2 million items then). Don't forget that this is about "traditional" Japanese culture, so before Meiji.Originally Posted by pipokun
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"What is the use of living, if it be not to strive for noble causes and to make this muddled world a better place for those who will live in it after we are gone?", Winston Churchill.
Well, I like your trivia-like threads, you know much more than avarage Japanese threads, but honestly all I can say is "you know them well. nothing more, nothing less".
What about the genome sequence of Japanese?
Whenever I read such a question, I ask myself, "What is he aiming at ?".How much of Japan's traditional culture comes from China ?
On the earth, can we find "the pure culture" which has never been influenced by the other culture ?
I am so fool high school student that I cannot find "the pure culture" in the world.
A new culture originates in encounter between the different cultures. It is brought up with the tender care for a long time and becomes a highly developed culture.
If you are interested in cross-cultural comparison between Japan and China, I will advise you to read the books written by Wang Min€q.
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http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/...779759-6113064
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It is said that in ancient times there were 4 culture areas in the world.
Old Japan related to the Chinese culture area.
(Chinese culture is also made by many different ethnic cultures.)
Some yearly events in Japan originated in encounter between old Japanese culture and old Chinese culture. They were imported as events of the court life and transformed the characters in Japan. Today, They are different from Chinese ones.
Chinese, Indian or Arabic cultures are quite "pure" if you ask me. If you take all Europe as one culture (without looking at inter-linguistic differences like in India or China), then it is also quite pure. Only a tiny percentage of the whole culture comes from another, completely different culture. We could argue that Christianity is the single biggest cultural import of European civilisation - except if you consider the Hebrew culture as part of European civiliation (after all, most Jews in the world lived in Europe before Israel was re-created in 1947).Originally Posted by kaerupop
Anyway, I was just wondering how much was "original" and how much was "imported". European culture clearly grew out of the Greco-Roman civilisation. It seems to me that Japan grew as much of the Ancient Chinese civilisation as modern China, Korea or Vietnam. The roots are mostly the same, and these cultures now have more similarities than differences.
This is an exciting field of study that deserves continued attention. There would be two approaches possible, 1) that of micro-historical study tracing all parallels and possible origins to culminate in a macroscopic overview of the specific cultural item evolving and inventing in the natural course or historical development, 2) that of conspired inventions that were cooked up during the later periods of the contending nation-states as Eric Hobsbawm and Terrence Ranger analyse in their coedited work, The Invention of Traditions (Canto S. 1983, 1992, 328 pages).
Out of a dialectic examination of the two approaches, a more solid perpsective of national-ethnic culture can be obtained; this is thoroughly exciting line of research to pursue, not necessarily aimed at "bashing" any one particular culture; identical studies should be applied to all cultures that "boast of long-held traditions of their glorious past." Although the relativist tendency of post-modernist studies are not altogether to be accepted, it is here with us to enrich our understanding, with anthropology and archeology giving stimulating new finds to supplement our historical tunnel vision all the time.Originally Posted by Amazon reviewer Judy Koren from Haifa Israel, July 31, 2003
Last edited by lexico; Oct 18, 2005 at 21:16.
If you study Chinese history, you can find that some different ethnic people ruled China by turns.Chinese, Indian or Arabic cultures are quite "pure" if you ask me.
Undoubtedly ancient Chinese culture deeply influenced on old Asian culture.
Similarly, undoubtedly "ancient Greek culture", "ancient Egyptian culture", "ancient Roman culture" and "Islamic culture" made the base of European cultures.
You enthusiastically find a point in common between Japan and China. But in a point in common you will be able to find a cultural gap.
I don't want to think that you disregard the difference between Japan and China. If you do so, you will never understand Asian cultures. I don't want you to look down on Asian cultures.
Do you believe European people could develop "ancient Roman culture" but Asian people could NOT develop "ancient Chinese culture" for a long time ?
I advise you to study Asian history and culture harder.It seems to me that Japan grew as much of the Ancient Chinese civilisation as modern China, Korea or Vietnam. The roots are mostly the same, and these cultures now have more similarities than differences.
And you will be able to notice diversity of Asian cultures.
Last edited by miles7tp; Oct 19, 2005 at 17:05.
Really ? The Mongols and Manchu only came in the 14th and 17th centuries. That's not "ancient history". In English (or European languages), "ancient" refers to the Antiquity, which ended with the fall of the Roman Empire in the 5th century. After that and until the 15th century, it is the "medieval" period.Originally Posted by kaerupop
So what ? If there was no cultural gap, China and Japan would be the same nation. It is clearly not the case. Not more than France, Germany, Italy or Spain have the same culture. My point is that the differences between European cultures are similar to the differences between East Asian countries. We could even say that French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese are at the same level as the various Chinese linguistic groups (Mandarin, Cantonese, Wu, Hokkien, Hakka...), while Japanese would be like English (both being hybrid languages). Mongolian and Manchurian would be more like Scandinavian languages, and Korean like German.You enthusiastically find a point in common between Japan and China. But in a point in common you will be able to find a cultural gap.
Did I disregard the differences between Japan and China. I could list dozens of differences, mainly in the way of thinking. Yet, it's interesting to see that a lot of the objects, clothes, festivals, beliefs, social systems, etc. in Japan came from China, the same way as the old Greco-Roman system (Latin alphabet, festivals, technologies...) spread to areas that were never in the Roman Empire, like Ireland, Scotland, Scandinavia or Northern Germany.I don't want to think that you disregard the difference between Japan and China. If you do so, you will never understand Asian cultures. I don't want you to look down on Asian cultures.
What does this sentence mean ?Do you believe European people could develop "ancient Roman culture" but Asian people could NOT develop "ancient Chinese culture" for a long time ?
I don't need to study more to know that. Maybe it is you who does not understand the cultural differences between European cultures. It's obvious that an English person and an Italian, or a Finn and a Greek have very little in common in terms of way of thinking and working. Likewise, the Chinese and Japanese think quite differently. But the system, fundamental values, clothing style, technologies, etc. have evolved together in all European countries, while the have also evolved at the same time in North-East Asian countries. When a new political or economic system was developed somewhere in Europe, the rest followed. Artistic current (Romanesque, Gothic, Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic...) changed at about the same time in all Europe for architecture, painting, fashion or music. Likewise, new technologies or artistic styles in China spread to Vietnam, Korea and Japan (rarely the other way though, since China looked down on its neighbours). I would say that the main difference is that most of the "new stuff" in Asia came from China, while in Europe it could come from any region (although mostly Italy, France, the Netherlands, Germany and Britain) as no country was big and powerful enough to look down on all others. I guess that's because of the different geographical divsion of Europe and East Asia.I advise you to study Asian history and culture harder.
And you will be able to notice diversity of Asian cultures.
I also wanted to show that countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Cambodia or Myanmar do not really belong to this "East Asian" group. They were much less influenced by China, and maybe more by India. They first followed Theravada Buddhism, as opposed to Mahayama Buddhism in China, Korea, Japan and Vietnam. They also adopted Hinduism, then Indonesia and Malaysia converted to Islam when the Muslims ruled Moghul India. These countries also did not inherit most of the Chinese inventions and traditions listed above.
No, Indian culture is not "pure" -- whatever that means. Are you referring to the north or the south? Before the Aryan migration, or after? Before Islam, or after? And neither is Arabic, even with the influence of Islam.Originally Posted by Maciamo
But still "quite" pure (not completely of course). I meant after the Aryan invasion as before that civilisation wasn't really India. It was even purer before the arrival of Islam, but only 12% of India's population is now Muslim, despite the numerous monuments left by former rulers. Anyhow, we can safely say that the Muslim architecture of India is original and "Indian" enough to be different from other Muslim countries. It's not like China, Korea and Japan where it is sometimes hars to tell from a picture from which country is a Buddhist temple.Originally Posted by Haivart
For me religion itself is not "culture"; it is the local culture that fashions religion to fit the mindset of the local population. This can several centuries, but eventually one same religion splits in various branches and is practised differently in different culturl areas. That's why "Christianity" does not have the same meaning at all for American and Europeans, and between them, for Catholics, Anglicans, Protestants and Orthodox. One thing unique about India is the number of religion that sprang from its original culture, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and even Sikhism by fusion with Islam. What makes it "pure" or "unique" is that 3 of these 4 religions are almost exclusively found in India (emigrants notwithstanding, of course), and we could also add the Zoroastrian, originally from Persia, but only found in India (and Pakistan and Sri Lanka) nowadays.
Then, if you have been to India, you know it's a totally different place from almost anywhere else in the world. East Asian and South-East Asian countries share a lot in common, so that while in Japan you sometimes feel like it could be Thailand or China. I have never felt like I was on a different planet in East Asia, while I did in India (and only in India, not even Nepal). Maybe that is because India has resisted "cultural westernisation" more than East Asian countries. It has kept its 5000-yera old class system well alive, while Japan got rid of its 250-year old class system in the late 19th century. No McDonalds, no Italian or Chinese restaurants, almost no clothes, food, cars or other consumer products imported from Western countries... That's in this regard that I saw Indian culture as "purer" than Japan's, or that of most other countries in the world. The only major cultural import from India is cricket, and it has almost died out in its country of origin...
We could try and make a list of cultural stuff imported by India, but apart from a bit if Islam and Christianity, and cricket (which are really leftovers of invasions and colonisation, rather than "imports"), there isn't much...
Are Chinese culture(s) really that 'pure'? What we know as the Han Chineses are actually a complex mix of many different ethic groups, each with their own unique cultures. The Hakkas for instance orginated from the Northen China, currently settled largely in the Southen Guandong province, Fujian, Taiwan, Hong Kong and also many South East Asian countries. They were also said to be genetically more similar/much closer to the Koreans and Japanese compared that any other ethnic groups of China, now all assimulated under a common 'Han' ethnicity. The orginal language which they used to speak were also a lot more similar with Japanese than Chinese (and other dilects) with Japanese. Only comparatively recent were the Hakkas assimulated and accept as 'Han-Chinese'. This goes to show that 'Chinese' culture isn't that homogeneous or 'pure' as some might think, but is composed of a wide range of cultures and ethnics living in China. That's even though a large group of these different people were all lumped up as simply 'Han' Chinese. Kind of 'Borg' like if you'd ask me.
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