Shock of Western vs Japanese values

[nekosasori]

I think a subset of the West -- that part which has been strongly influenced by Christian fundamentalism (Baptist, Methodist, etc.) is anti-lying, and in favour of public confession and so on.

No Catholics are also against lying.

Well, the Irish do not practice what the (Irish Catholic) Church preaches - take the two examples of 1) child abuse cases by priests which were completely overlooked until they couldn't hide this any longer and 2) priests also taking advantage of young orphaned women (to keep as sex partners and housekeepers) - this has STILL not been apologized about by the Church.

As for examples of Western governments making money out of alcohol/tabacco - Canada and Ireland both readily come to mind given the amount of tax they place on both substances. The Ontario government for instance is the only legal outlet for off-licenses (stores that sell take-out booze). A pack of cigarettes in Ireland costs about three times the amount it does in Spain, due to taxes.

[Maciamo]

As for examples of Western governments making money out of alcohol/tabacco - Canada and Ireland both readily come to mind given the amount of tax they place on both substances. The Ontario government for instance is the only legal outlet for off-licenses (stores that sell take-out booze). A pack of cigarettes in Ireland costs about three times the amount it does in Spain, due to taxes.

1) It seems that you completely misunderstand the purpose of taxing alcohol and tobacco. Far from promoting them, they are trying their best to discourage consumers by rising prices, and using this tax money for other projects.

2) My example about the Japanese government was very different. Not only are taxes low (a pack of cigarette only cost about 250yen, or 2 euro, in Tokyo, which incidentally is the world's most expensive city). But the government possess (with shares), and manage "Japan Tobacco", the company that produces most of the cigarettes available in Japan (Mild Seven, Parliament, etc.).

What is more, ads for tobacco are everywhere (while they are now prohibited in countries like France), and packs of cigarettes only have the mention "You should be 20 years old to smoke. Don't abuse at it could damage your health." In contrast, in Western countries it shows "Tobacco kills" or "Tobacco causes cancer", or "tobacco seriously damages health", etc. In comparison, Japanese laws are very mild indeed.

Additionally, I have never seen ads against tobacco in Japan, which are so common in the West (in public transports, government buildings, doctors's waiting rooms). How comes ?

[bossel]

1) It seems that you completely misunderstand the purpose of taxing alcohol and tobacco. Far from promoting them, they are trying their best to discourage consumers by rising prices, and using this tax money for other projects.

I have to disagree on this one. Taxing obviously doesn't promote usage, but it doesn't really seem to be intended to discourage it either. I know, that in Germany the government says that they raise tax (on gas, alcohol, cigarettes) to further decrease usage, but at the same time they calculate their tax revenue on basis of continued usage rates. (BTW, due to rising oil prices they miscalculated their gas tax revenue , people actually did use less, now the government has another deficit of billions)

What is more, ads for tobacco are everywhere (while they are now prohibited in countries like France), and packs of cigarettes only have the mention "You should be 20 years old to smoke. Don't abuse at it could damage your health." In contrast, in Western countries it shows "Tobacco kills" or "Tobacco causes cancer", or "tobacco seriously damages health", etc. In comparison, Japanese laws are very mild indeed.

Although they have made these labels an obligation in the EU, they are not too coherent in their policy. European tobacco farmers are still subsidised with 1 billion � annually (at least until 2009).

[Maciamo]

Although they have made these labels an obligation in the EU, they are not too coherent in their policy. European tobacco farmers are still subsidised with 1 billion � annually (at least until 2009).

This is another issue. Tobacco isn't illegal in Europe, so, if people are going to sell it and make profits from it, let it at least be European companies rather than foreign ones. I totally understand that. But that doesn't prevent the authorities from banning tonacco advertisment and raising prices through taxes to "limit" the consumption. The miscalculation about taxes you mentioned above are just an accounting problem, they do not try to keep consumption levels using any form of promotion just to assure revenues. Again, in Japan it is very different, as it is the government that promotes the use of tobacco by advertising (as JT is a public company).

[bossel]

The miscalculation about taxes you mentioned above are just an accounting problem,

Not just an accounting problem, this is policy. They do it with everything, from alcohol to gas. They say that they raise tax only to discourage smoking (or whatever), but actually they don't care. What they care about is their budget. The miscalculation was only due to rising international oil prices, else it would have probably worked as usual: no decrease in usage, but increase of tax income.

The situation in Japan is obviously completely different, since the government has a stake in a tobacco company. I would not even try to disagree with you here.

[Maciamo]

The situation in Japan is obviously completely different, since the government has a stake in a tobacco company. I would not even try to disagree with you here.

Not just a stake. Japan Tobacco was a state monopoly until 1985. It is now a public company two-thirds owned by the Japanese Finance Ministry.
It is the 3rd largest Tobacco company in the world, has subsidiaries in 120 countries and owns brands such as Mild Seven, Seven Stars, Winston, Camel or Salem. All this originally started as a state enterprise and monopoly with the tax money, instead of discouraging smoking. We will never see tobacco ads prohibited or serious government campaign against smoking as long as the government will be so deeply involved in this business.

That reminds me of Jon Woronoff's words that in Japan, "the Ministry of Health does what it can for pharmaceutical companies and physicians (not their patients), the Minisry of Agriculture looks after the farmers (not the consumers)", and so on for each ministry. Did I mention that Japan Tobacco also has a pharmaceuticals branch ? The most ironic would be if they produced medecine against lung cancer, while being sponsored by the Ministry of Health ! Business is business, as the Japanese would say (and morals has nothing to do with business).