Bad Japanese manners / Where are the polite Japanese ?

[RockLee]

I also heard in China you have to burp after dinner to show appreciation. What a load of crock ! I didn't even hear 1 person burp...Only saw even really hot girl spit on the ground. Stereotypes are just what they are, nothing more.

[leonmarino]

I don't consider slurping "bad manners", it's just different manners. It might have originated as a way to cool off your food/drink, but it has a nice advantage that it improves your tasting. Wine-tasters also slurp their wines so they get more oxigen in their mouths and so they can taste better.

Anyways, the few things that bother me in Japan is sexism and racism. Women are often treated differently than men and are supposed to fulfill a taxing role in the old-fashioned man-woman-relationship, taking care of the man. At the same time the male counterpart is unable to perform a wide array of tasks like cooking, washing and other basic tasks to take care of one self.. I just find that very, very sad.

The other thing is racism, but a lot has been said about that and there is little I can add to it. One recurring thing springs to mind though. When I am with my Japanese girlfriend and I order something (for example curry rice) many waiters/waitresses ask my girlfriend for further questions (for example how hot I want the curry to be). I keep telling myself that they do that out of politeness (what if the customer doesn't understand what the waiter is saying, he might look like a fool), but I can't help experiencing it as very rude.

[ricecake]

Women are often treated differently than men and are supposed to fulfill a taxing role in the old-fashioned man-woman-relationship.

When I am with my Japanese girlfriend and I order something (for example curry rice) many waiters/waitresses ask my girlfriend for further questions (for example how hot I want the curry to be).

Japanese men are esteemed in society at the expense of their women-folk is how Japan structures it,I am not seeing any sign of dramatic changes in regard to gender matters.

This scenerio comes up often,is it customary or these Japanese individuals just want to get it right as they're known perfectionists

[Maciamo]

The other thing is racism, but a lot has been said about that and there is little I can add to it. One recurring thing springs to mind though. When I am with my Japanese girlfriend and I order something (for example curry rice) many waiters/waitresses ask my girlfriend for further questions (for example how hot I want the curry to be). I keep telling myself that they do that out of politeness (what if the customer doesn't understand what the waiter is saying, he might look like a fool), but I can't help experiencing it as very rude.

First when I read your post I thought you were complaining about waiters asking how people want their curry, but as it didn't make sense I re-read and understood that the problem was that they ask your girlfriend about your curry (not hers), rather than asking directly to you, just because you are a foreigner. It has happened countless of times to me.

There have been times with my in laws when my wife's mother or grand-mother wanted to ask me a question they asked my wife, who repeated it to me in Japanese, rather than ask me directly (even at the dining table). When I told my wife that I found this strange, she explained that traditionally it was not polite for a woman to address a man directly. That doesn't make sense because my wife is also a woman, and we are all family... It also doesn't make sense because male waiters or JR staff would also answer to my wife when I asked them a question. I stayed long enough in Japan to notice that women all address men directly between Japanese. Only foreigners get asked questions indirectly.

I suppose that the main reason for them to do that is because they think that foreigners cannot understand Japanese. But again, my in laws knew as I usually spoke only Japanese with my wife after 2 years in Japan, and they (esp. the grandmother) kept making indirect questions via my wife, although I answered in Japanese. Sometimes my wife would even repeat what I said in Japanese with the exact same words. When I complained about it, she said that her grandmother couldn't understand my pronuciation, which is obviously a false pretext, as everybody else understood without problem. I came to understand that the true reason is that she didn't really want to talk to me directly (maybe was she intimidated by my being a foreigner). But it seems to be true for many waiters, shop assistants and JR/metro staff too (not all, fortunately). They are so intimidated at talking to Westerners that they had rather talk back to my wife than me when I ask them something. More than racism this is actually xenophobia (literally "fear of foreigners"). Actually I cannot think of a better illustration of the term xenophobia in its most literal sense. Naturally, people who seek to meet Westerners (in bars, nightclubs) or take private English lessons with a Westerner do not behave like that.

[ricecake]

she explained that traditionally it was not polite for a woman to address a man directly.

she said that her grandmother couldn't understand my pronuciation,which is obviously a false pretext,I came to understand that the true reason is that she didn't really want to talk to me directly (maybe was she intimidated by my being a foreigner).

More than racism this is actually xenophobia (literally "fear of foreigners"). Actually I cannot think of a better illustration of the term xenophobia in its most literal sense.Naturally,people who seek to meet Westerners (in bars, nightclubs) or take private English lessons with a Westerner do not behave like that.

It's only true for older female generations in any East Asian culture,no longer in practice though.

There are Oriental grannies ( including my mother ) do feel un-comfortable talking directly to " foreigner males " not necessarily imply disliking or disrespectful.

Honestly,there are some Orientals in Pacific Rim region not comfortable socially interact with " foreigners ".I can't say that's the case for Japanese in this regard since they're indoctrinated at very young age by the notion Japan is part of Western World.

I am NOT defending certain perceivingly " racist or foreigner-unfriendly " behaviours of Japanese,I can understand gaijins are irritated by those social annoyances in Japan.I would find it extremely rude if a waitress chooses not to address me directly because I look racially or ethnically different.

[ArmandV]

I think a lot of waiters/waitresses are so used to gaijins like me (who know diddly-squat in Japanese) that they automatically turn the the Japanese person who's with you and then are shocked when the occasional gaijin shows up who speaks Japanese.

When I went to a French(!) restaurant in Ginza with a Japanese ladyfriend, I didn't feel at all that I was given rude treatment. The menu was bi-lingual but she ended up telling the waiter our order and what wine I requested. It just made things go all the more smoothly.

[gaijinalways]

Yes, but this aspect of Japan seems to be often overlooked by the natives here, who are puzzled why 'others' be annoyed by it until you treat them the same way. I have had a soft right-winger at another site try to aoid admitting anything, looking for any excuse as to why Japanese might ;

not sit near any foreigner in some cases (old, young, fat, thin, short, tall, etc)

always direct questions to another if they are Asian looking, even if they don't understand Japanese

insist on not allowing you as you 'might' upset the other customers

If this is traditional behaviour, I'm glad I'm not atraditional xenophobe-racist!

[ArmandV]

I've had numerous Japanese go out of their way to sit near me (mainly older men and younger women) to strike up conversations. I've never noticed "avoidance."

The fact is, if you allow minor things to upset or annoy you, you will be upset and annoyed.

[ricecake]

I have had a soft right-winger at another site try to avoid admitting anything, looking for any excuse as to why Japanese might not sit near any foreigner in some cases (old, young, fat, thin, short, tall, etc)

always direct questions to another if they are Asian looking,even if they don't understand Japanese

I've read a lyric written by a gaijin on another Japan-oriented forum,in describing how one can be frown upon for gaijin-looking in JR/metro.I've had some reservation to that post,this confirms some of you actually experienced it.

This is a bit surprise to me,Japanese in Japan are comfortable with Asiatic peoples as it's the opposition elsewhere.Probably a minor case of Japan's Dr Jekyle and Mr Hyde.