Education system : Japan vs other countries

[mad pierrot]

Good idea for a thread.

I've got a few questions, too. Maybe you can help me. At all of the schools I teach, the same texts are used. I have asked why, and I was told by a Japanese teacher that all schools have to use texts assigned by the Ministry of Education in Tokyo. This sounded like BS at the time, but now I'm not so sure.
Any thoughts?

Another question I have concerns actual class structure. For example, in the middle schools I teach at, there is one English class for each grade. (1-3) This usually means that the student's English ability varies tremendously in the class, often making it hard to teach them all at once. I've suggested that the classes be split based on ability rather than grade level, but I was shot down pretty fast. Again, all the explaination I recieved was mumbling about how this is the way it has to be, schools can't decide, etc.

Any other teachers want to jump in on this one?

[Maciamo]

At all of the schools I teach, the same texts are used. I have asked why, and I was told by a Japanese teacher that all schools have to use texts assigned by the Ministry of Education in Tokyo. This sounded like BS at the time, but now I'm not so sure.
Any thoughts?

That is exactly what I have heard and read (many times) so it must be true.

I've suggested that the classes be split based on ability rather than grade level, but I was shot down pretty fast. Again, all the explaination I recieved was mumbling about how this is the way it has to be, schools can't decide, etc.

I understand that Japanese schools don't divide classes by abilities because that is also the way it was in my schools in Europe - and gaps were indeed huge, making the brighest students bored to death or leaving the slow ones well-behind depending on the speed adopted by the teacher. Usually the class' difficulty depended only on the teacher's personality, with some hard ones that were feared by most and some easy ones that were longed by the lazy average.

I would also have preferred a division by ability, esp. that we had about 8 classes (of about 30 students) per grade in secondary school. At least we were divided by options. One class for the "Latin-Maths", one for the "Latin-Greek", one for the "Maths-Science", one for the "Science-Modern Languages", etc. That makes it more difficult to divide, except for common subjects like geography, history, literature, etc.

[RockLee]

In other words, the reason why Japanese students have to study so hard for the "juuken" is not because it is that hard, but because they didn't know their real ability due to the lack of real eliminatory exams before that. As a results, many simply do not have the necessary knowledge and instead of "doubling" a normal school year like in Europe, they end up becoming "rounin" and study one or two more years by themselves or at a "yobiko" (preparatory school) to be able to enter university.

I think this is the mayor problem in Japan, you just learn "little" so to speak, and for entrance at a university the Japanese have to LEARN(not memorize like they did before) and that's something they never really learned so they will go completely COOCKOO !!

[Ewok85]

I understand that Japanese schools don't divide classes by abilities because that is also the way it was in my schools in Europe - and gaps were indeed huge, making the brighest students bored to death or leaving the slow ones well-behind depending on the speed adopted by the teacher. Usually the class' difficulty depended only on the teacher's personality, with some hard ones that were feared by most and some easy ones that were longed by the lazy average.

I would also have preferred a division by ability, esp. that we had about 8 classes (of about 30 students) per grade in secondary school. At least we were divided by options. One class for the "Latin-Maths", one for the "Latin-Greek", one for the "Maths-Science", one for the "Science-Modern Languages", etc. That makes it more difficult to divide, except for common subjects like geography, history, literature, etc.

Ahah! I dunno if it was just my school but it was the opposite. Classes were by ability, 1 being top. Classes were grouped into topics (language, sciences, arts). They had different teachers for each topic (teaching their specialised topic). The kids stayed in the same class with the same people (cept for PE where they would split boys/girls).

Its very annoying how little power schools and teachers hold on the education of their students. The Ministry of Education decides what books, the curriculum etc for the whole country. I do remember reading that some regions are able to change this if they wish.

I wouldn't mind 'streaming' (grouping classes by ability) in Australia. It works fine in Europe, would be good here too.

[Mandylion]

It is going on 2:30pm here, ie the dark period before the coffee break, but I'll add a bit.

At all of the schools I teach, the same texts are used. I have asked why, and I was told by a Japanese teacher that all schools have to use texts assigned by the Ministry of Education in Tokyo. This sounded like BS at the time, but now I'm not so sure.
Any thoughts?

Some do and some don't a lot can varry by regions. All texts have to be approved by the Ministry, but they are not assigned. How the process works is something like this (so I have been told). A publisher will put out, say, since we are JETs, a new text. They send it to Tokyo, Tokyo says OK, and then they go about trying to sell the text to local schools or districts. At my schools we are getting new samples in all the time.

Often all the schools in a district will all use the same text. Since I only work in one district with one elementary and one middle school, we get to see all the sample texts and decide at the local level. Other JETs who work in a different district teach from a different book (maybe) and are told which ones they will use. - For example, I teach from Sunshine (that comes out my rear) and a good friend uses New Horizon (such positive-sounding names).

Another question I have concerns actual class structure. For example, in the middle schools I teach at, there is one English class for each grade. (1-3) This usually means that the student's English ability varies tremendously in the class, often making it hard to teach them all at once. I've suggested that the classes be split based on ability rather than grade level, but I was shot down pretty fast. Again, all the explaination I recieved was mumbling about how this is the way it has to be, schools can't decide, etc.

Again, a lot depends on how the district is set up. Mine is not representative since it only has one school to deal with, but I have heard of othersworking in similar ways.

Classes can be split up, it all depends on if the teachers want to get off their rears and do it. My district is going over the problem of splitting up some classes now. We have a good number of really bright students and a good numbers of slower learners. In high school there is some tracking of students (advanced students in one class, more general folks in others) on rare occassion. If it will help is the real question...

All is not as dark and dire as it may seem, but I do strongly disagree with the no-fail policy. Whoever thought this one up was someone who obviously never failed or perhaps came close to failing once.

I think everyone needs the experience of at almost failing at some point. Doesn't have to be on a timetable, but before you get out of college or high school, you should have to look down into that abyss and find out exactly what you are made of. If you fall in, people are still there to help you out. If you get out in the real world on your own and don't know how to either stay away from failure or fix the problem, you are in for a very rude lesson...

[Eito]

I think everyone needs the experience of at almost failing at some point. Doesn't have to be on a timetable, but before you get out of college or high school, you should have to look down into that abyss and find out exactly what you are made of. If you fall in, people are still there to help you out. If you get out in the real world on your own and don't know how to either stay away from failure or fix the problem, you are in for a very rude lesson...

I completely agree with that. That's kind of what happened to me last year, and now I have to deal with it. I'm in the US, and with my school system they don't make you redo a whole year, only the few classes that you fail.
At my school they basically do whatever they want, but they are a private school so they can. The state doesn't give us many guidelines about curriculum.

In regards to "exam hell," it seems like a waste of time to me. From what I have read on multiple accounts, when a Japanese person goes to get a job, the employer rarely cares about college education. In fact, the Japanese system does not really entice people to aim for higher education so much, and less thn a third of them go on to university. So why do all the work when you don't have to?


A conversation in the book Dogs and Deamons, Chapter 12:

"If Japan's schools are so very good, why do you have to spend so much money for extra education?"

"The children do not learn what they need to know to pass the exams for university in public schools."

"Well, what are they doingin school, then?"

"They are learning to be Japanese."

[Mandylion]

In regards to "exam hell," it seems like a waste of time to me. From what I have read on multiple accounts, when a Japanese person goes to get a job, the employer rarely cares about college education. In fact, the Japanese system does not really entice people to aim for higher education so much, and less thn a third of them go on to university. So why do all the work when you don't have to?

The employers don't look at what you did in university but rather the university you went to. Simply put good university = good job, great university = great job. So, they do all the work to get into a good university to get a good job on the strength of the reputation of that school alone, not to really further their academic horizons.

It always amazes me when a talent (pop star / idol / actor fluff) gets oohhs and aahhs when it is said they graduated from a top university. If they are smart, Japanese TV never lets them show it... This thing holds true if you went to a good univeristy overseas too (so mych so that some members of the government have lied about doing exchange programs or even graduating from top US universities). There is a foreign guy on TV here, can't recall his name - went to Harvard. Speaks good Japanese, but I think the name on his degree is the only reason anyone puts up with him. My wife - usually a kind, mild person - has pronounced him a complete git and very snobbish.

[omae mona]

There is a foreign guy on TV here, can't recall his name - went to Harvard. Speaks good Japanese, but I think the name on his degree is the only reason anyone puts up with him.

On TV, the only reason anybody puts up with ANYBODY is because they think it's going to draw in audiences and help make a profit (if we're not talking about NHK).

Disclaimer: I know your foreign guy on TV quite well personally, but I think there are some more pertinent reasons he's on TV.

• Speaks EXCELLENT, not good, Japanese
• The only foreigner (to my knowledge) half of a manzai comedy duo. Not only does this require fluent Japanese, but also a damn good understanding of Japanese culture and what makes Japanese people laugh. Granted, I guess it's not working on your wife, but..
• Looks good on TV

My wife - usually a kind, mild person - has pronounced him a complete git and very snobbish.

I can assure you he's not snobbish, but I think we all know that on TV (especially in Japan) everything comes off *exactly* the way the director wants it to. Frankly, I don't think he seems snobbish on TV either, but granted, I'm not going to be the guy to pick up subtle queues like what seems snobbish to a Japanese person.

[on edit: hey, how did my post count get set to 1? I was almost sure I've posted here before, but maybe I was hallucinating...]

[Mandylion]

aside to omae mona - thanks for your input. Don't think it will change my wife's opinion of him But then again, my household has a rather strong distrust of any mass media (of any country) and those who appear on it. Judgemental, yes, we free and openly admit it. But if you go on TV, you paint a target on your chest - we know there is more to him than meets the eye, but this (the televised version) is all we can see - it is nothing personal.