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Originally Posted by Maciamo
West => Idealistic & moralistic
Japan => Pragmatic & cynical
Fair enough.
As has been said, this thesis bears some resemblance to the "shame" versus "guilt" society theory that has been bandied about for a few years now.
Personally, I'm not convinced that the things you say are quite sound as a generalization of the contrast between Western and Japanese values. Nor do I think that the West comes out well in the picture you paint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maciamo
West => Lying is wrong
Japan => Lying is necessary to avoid causing offense/trouble
But lying isn't always wrong. Only certain kinds of lies are wrong: e.g., libel, false advertising, scientific or journalistic fraud, etc. -- lies that cause real harm, or that are part of a process of doing something to cause harm. Saying "I'm fine thanks" when one is miserable is perfectly okay. In English, there is the phrase, "white lie". If the West is wholly against lying (and I'm not sure it is), it is irrational to be so. I think a subset of the West -- that part which has been strongly influenced by Christian fundamentalism (Baptist, Methodist, etc.) is anti-lying, and in favour of public confession and so on. I think too much of that confession thing is bad for individuals and for society.
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West => Being responsible/adult means
1) behaving in morally good/praiseworthy way (eg. dissuade a child to smoke, save somebody who is drowning...)
2) be independent (be able to live by oneself, clean the house when necessary, etc.)
Japan => Being responsible/adult means
1) having money to support one's family or take care of them. From a moral point of view, the way the money is made is not important ("money is money").
2) It is also being able to integrate in the group (company, etc.). Japanese being collectivists, independence from the group is not viewed as maturity but the contrary.
Unless you have a definite vocation that is incompatible with making money (and surely that only applies to a few people), you might as well go ahead and make some. As for being "independent", if that means going into the bush and living on grubs, leave it to the birds. Italians routinely stay at home with their mothers until their mother drops dead, and the Irish if they didn't emigrate so much probably would, too. Italy and Ireland, and to some extent France also have a very relaxed attitude to official corruption. (Nekosasori has already mentioned Ireland.)
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West => The government's role is educate the people (e.g. fight against racism, smoking, etc.) and to protect them from abuses from companies (environment, health, security, discrimination at work, being fired without reason, etc.)
Japan => The government's role is to protect companies and the economy. Laws to protect the people are only passed reluctantly when pressures from activists or foreign countries becomes too strong. The Ministry of Health helps/protects pharmaceuticals companies and doctors, not the patients. The Ministry of Agriculture helps/protects the farmers, not the consumers. Etc.
Many Western governments make money out of alcohol and/or tobacco. Some (Britain is one of them) fail to seriously discourage it because they like the money (either monopoly profits or taxes and duties) that they get from the stuff. Many Western governments are to a large degree influenced by corporate lobbies. The US government does very little to protect the people on environment, health, security (look at the crime rate), discrimination at work, being fired without reason. Maybe a little bit on the environment, but not much.
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West => Laws are made to regulate/refrain immoral deeds or protect people agianst themselves (diseases, alcoholism, accidents, etc.)
Japan => Laws are made to keep the public order, whithout consideration for morals
- prostitution has long been legal in Japan, and was only banned by Americans after WWII,
It is contrary to Western liberal (Mill, Bentham, Spencer, Burke) principles to make laws based on purely moral premises, and different Western governments treat prostitution very differently (some are absolutely intolerant, some are completely tolerant).
Also, there are quite a lot of things that are illegal in Western countries which are nonetheless widely tolerated. (You only need to stand by a road and watch the traffic to see this is true.)
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West => Right or wrong are just subjective concepts depending on one's moral views. Morals includes logic, reasoning and feelings.
Japan => The winner is always right
Right now, the US believes might is right. That's why it gets huffy whenever other countries try to tell it that it is wrong.
In the days of Empire, Britain and France behaved also as if they believed might was right, much of the time.
I think that the mighty always have a tendency to think might is right.
Incidentally, the Japanese did replace the teaching of Korean language and arts with Japanese equivalents in Korean schools when it had an Empire over there. One gets the feeling from Koreans that more than military domination, it is the deprecation of Korean culture by Japan that riles.
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West => Happiness is measured by love, freedom, (political & social) rights, personal achievements, passions, realisation of one's dreams, security, etc. (also money and material possession, but people admitting it are usually frown upon as shallow)
Japan => Happiness is measured by money , material possessions and security.
It is irrational to exclude money from the list of things that brings happiness. Money is a big factor in happiness.
I think that parts of the West do have an instinctive dislike of "money-grabbing", but not all. After all, it was the West that invented capitalism. They had to invent a new religion (Calvinism) to make it possible, though.
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Conclusion
Japanese often find that Westerners are naive of being so idealistic, and childish because they seem too excited and disconnected with reality. They know human nature and its weakness, and more readily accept things such as corruption, greed or treatment of women as sexual objects, because they think it is inevitable and has always been like that. In some way they are very cynical.
Westerners often find the Japanese are irresponsible on such issues as protection from STD's, naive for being too trusting/gullible, or lacking intellectual and moral maturity.
I can understand both point of views, and it is funny how living in one's home country accentuate the apparent maturity, while being in the other culture's country make one feel displaced and doubting their own values, because of the huge difference in environment.
I find myself agreeing more with the values you ascribe to the Japanese than with those you ascribe to the "West" (although I don't think the whole of the West really does think the way you say).